Whats wrong with Plate racing and Nascar

[ricklou]

They just cannot seem to finish one of these races with out a problem.

Two times this year cars have cartwheeled into the catch fence so they raise the fence by 8 feet. Surely they doubled the fence webbing in general ? Nascar has lost or never found sight of the basic fundamentals of what is really is happening on the race track.

There is no doubt that safety for fans and drivers should be a priority and for the most part that has been accomplished.

What is not being focused on is the affect that the restrictor plate has on racing at Daytona and Talladega.

The bottom line is that the cars are still going too fast. Turn anything backwards or sideways at 195 mph and there is going to be a problem. Put 30 cars together in a pack and the problem is multiplied. This is the key.

Nascar had to slow the cars after Bobby Allison ripped down the fence at Talladega in 1987 as they were running laps in excess of 205 mph hence the restrictor was instituted for the 1988 season. That worked out well as Richard Petty barrel rolled Daytona's front stretch fence in the season opener.

A couple of things to consider is that Nascar dropped the weight of the Cup cars by 200 lbs several years ago at the request of teams and drivers.. Secondly with the plate sapping several hundred horsepower from engines it has glued the cars together on the race track. Another point is that aero has taken presedence over mechanical grip. Aero is everything to a Cup car now and has been for several years. The tires just do not get a break as teams search for the perfect aero/mechanical set up.

Nascar's answer is to have a larger wheel/tire combination to make these cars drive better. This is not necessary at all. Put the 200 lbs back into the cars and replace the plate with either a smaller carbuerator and or a smaller cubic inch engine.

During the mid 70's the cars were running at about 180 to 185 mph during race conditions with no real issues to speak of. Now the cars are still approaching 200 mph during a race at Talladega.

Privately Nascar maybe concerned about an underdog busting a move with lower powered cars but this will not happen as the best will still win regardless if the circumstances.

What has happened is that no longer are teams able to work on set ups and driving technique looking for mechanical grip. Now they are forced into a box that limits what can be done to the car mechanically and the driver no longer can use his expertise to get the job done. This aero affect comes into play at all superspeedways.

Nascar has transformed the sport into an AERO sport and the styling of the cars easily reflect that. This is not what Stock Car Racing is supposed to be.

Maybe soon the light bulb will go off in Daytona Beach before it is forced to.

[dstanbery]

The cars have been flyin in the air it seems forever,it wont change no matter what they do. It's just a part of it sometimes.

[ricklou]

It is part of it sometimes but does not have to happen. Nascar has taken away the spirit of racing with regulations.

After 2001 Nascar has fundementally changed the sport in many areas. The plate is their baby and it doesnt work.

Yesterday Ryan Newman said that Petty, Allison and Pearson would think that this deal is a joke. He is right. Those guys did not have to deal with this kind of thing as they were able to settle it among themselves whether it was a close finish or not.

[songsmith1950]

The COT is one thing but to limit it with a restrictor plate really makes it a very pitiful racer.

[pmossberg]

Nascar ever tested an unrestricted engine COT at Daytona or Talladega?

The real issue that causes all the freight trains with the restricted engines is throttle response. The driver really has no control. And with the foot flat to the floor, there's nothing "extra" to call on if you jump out of line. Not too mention that it takes a couple laps (5 Miles!) to get up to speed. And the cars are still hitting the mid-190s.

Top speed is limited by gearing and engine revolutions. Nascar V8s max out around 9000 rpm or so. The technology in use is going to continue to limit maximum rpms.

So it seems me that even without restrictor plates, Nascar could control top speeds by regulating final drive ratios (a combination of transmission and rear end gear ratios).

I'm no engineer so I am probably missing something. It just seems to me that the restrictor plates area failure.

[ricklou]

Paul,I agree that throttle responce is a problem. Teams also have to have an entirely different engine program for plate motors.

I think Rusty Wallace ran a unrestricted car at Talladega a few years ago but the numbers have not been released.

The answers and corrections are very simple but Nascar with it's infinet wisdom does not see it.

[pmossberg]

Thanks for the tip rick!

A quick google and I can report the Rusty test was in 2004, and he hit 228 on the straights and a 221 lap average. This is with the old car, not the COT.

Here is the article from nascar.com. www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/cup/06/10/rwallace_talladega/index.html

TALLADEGA, Ala. -- Rusty Wallace gave a new meaning to the term "high speed communication" on Wednesday afternoon when he piloted his Miller Lite Dodge at speeds up to 228 mph at Talladega Superspeedway.

"We hit 228 (mph) at the end of the straightaway and averaged 221 (mph) for that overall lap segment," an excited Wallace said late Wednesday as he prepared to head back home to North Carolina. "It was a helluva deal that I certainly will remember for the rest of my life. We'd all been wondering what it would feel like to run at Talladega again without the (restrictor-) plates and now I know. I'll bet we could be running speeds up to 235 (mph) without the plates if we spent time doing some tweaking.

"But I'll tell you this -- there's no way we could be out there racing at those speeds," Wallace offered. "It was neat to be out there running that fast by myself, but it would be insane to think we could have a pack of cars out there doing that."

Wallace's high-speed opportunity came at the request of NASCAR officials on behalf of series sponsor Nextel and Racing Radios, the Hampton, Ga.,-based company that serves as the "Official 2-Way Radio provider" for all three of the major NASCAR racing series.

"I've enjoyed a long-standing relationship with Racing Radios and I jumped at the opportunity to assist them with their 'Communication of the Future' program for NASCAR," Wallace said. "We were invited to bring our Miller Lite Dodge superspeedway car down for the test to assure quality audio at high rates of speed. The NASCAR, Nextel and Racing Radios officials were all extremely pleased at the end of the day, so I'd say that we did a good job for them."

Wallace's speed far exceeded the official track qualifying record of 212.809 mph (44.998 seconds), set by Bill Elliott on April 30, 1987.

"I guess it was about as official as you could get as we were operating under the watchful eyes of NASCAR," chuckled crew chief Larry Carter, who flew to Talladega with Wallace after testing at Sonoma, Calif., on Tuesday. "John Darby (NASCAR Nextel Cup Series Director) and Buster Auton (long-time series official who has served as the pace car driver since 1997) were in charge, along with officials from Racing Radios and Nextel. So, there were plenty of witnesses on hand.

"They were timing lap segments and straightaway speeds and Rusty's fastest lap had him running an average 221 mph in that segment and 228 mph at the end of the straightaway," Carter offered. "The overall lap time was a 44.27 (-second, 216.309 mph) and that beat Elliottt's old record by more than seven-tenths (of a second). It was some sight to see, I'll tell you that."

"It was one of the most exciting experiences I've had in a long time," said Earl Barban, spotter for Wallace's team who was on the other end of the communications link with Wallace during his fast laps around the Talladega track. "One of the things that impressed me most was the sound of the engine screaming down the straightaways and into the turns. It's totally different than what we're accustomed to hearing with the (restrictor-) plate motors. As for the actual audio test, Rusty was out there barreling into the corner at 228 (mph) and I could here him crystal clear. So, I'd say that it was a successful test for our friends at Racing Radios."

Wallace and his Miller Lite Dodge team head to Pocono Raceway in Pennsylvania this weekend for Sunday's running of the Pocono 500 NASCAR Nextel Cup Series race.

[ricklou]

Good link Paul. That is insane !

[apttyfn]

I think these cars have outgrown Talladega and Daytona. The racing continues to get worse and worse. Some one will get killed before its over. Im for moving one of these races to Darlington. I dont know what the answer is but Nascar dont either. By the way, how could you send a email to Brian France or Mike Helton and complain about anything. I tried yesterday but didnt work. I think they should take Talladega out of the chase. Its a crap shoot, even though Mcmurray did have the best car yesterday no body knows what will happen next.

[pmossberg]

Since NASCAR is not a publicly traded company they don't have to make all their info public. So, they don't. The best I can find is their phone number and a post office box:

NASCAR
PO Box 2875
Daytona Beach, FL 32120
1-904-253-0611

I have seen some email links that go to nascar.com addresses. You might try a variety of standard email forms, such as mhelton, m.helton, mike.helton etc.

[ricklou]

Kenn the answer is right there in front of them but they choose not to see it. Part of Nascar's creedo is to keep a level playing field. That is why Jimmie Johsnon is on the verge of winning 4 titles in a row or why Petty won 200 races or why Earnhardt won 7 titles ....

Somebody is going to figure it out and dominate no matter the rules. Nascar's manipulation of the sport has taken the realness away from it. They want everybody to be equal and in doing so have watered down the true spirit of racing. Nascar needs to take away emphasis on the bodies of the cars and put it back into the teams and drivers hands. The plate racing adds to sameness as we always wait for the BIG ONE.

Why is Nascar concerned about bodies to the point that every car has the same profile ? They are afraid that someone will win a race by two laps ? The Money has taken away the spirit of racing. Nascar is shuffling the deck instead of letting the cards fall where they may.

It is ludricus to think that these teams cannot build a smaller engine package for Talladega for the same amount of money that it takes to run a plate program. Nascar wants the teams to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a plate motor program. It is to easy and enexpensive to bolt on a smaller carb or build a smaller engine.

People ae tuning out with hype that is not backed up.

[chilipepper]

For those of you who use Twitter, NASCAR does have a Twitter account. I guess it was flooded yesterday with lots of comments. Just log onto your Twitter account and do nascar and send them your thoughts. I sent about 20 yesterday myself.